No, not "those" escort services...
Earlier today I requested Woodstock (Ill.) City Hall to obtain a legal opinion from City Attorney Rich Flood about the use of emergency lights and sirens on police and fire vehicles for escort duty, such as last night's escort of a Woodstock resident who is on leave from his military job in Afghanistan. As you may have read in my earlier article, I oppose the illegal use of sirens and emergency lights by police cars and fire trucks for escort duty. (And, yes, I realize fire vehicles are not owned or operated by the City of Woodstock.)
The response from the City? The City of Woodstock "... will not request an opinion from the City Attorney as it is the City’s position that the use you reference is both legal and appropriate."
Well, the City is wrong. Just as it was wrong on two previous issues about which I asked them to get a legal opinion: 1) use of the two-way, left-turn lane (such as on IL 47 through Woodstock) and 2) confidentiality of resident complaints about Code violations.
The City was wrong, too, in allowing WFRD fire trucks and paramedic vehicles to park in Emergency Parking zones at the recreation center, but it refused then too to get a legal opinion. I'll take that refusal as a "win", too.
State law specifies when lights and sirens can be used by police cars and fire & rescue equipment, and an escort for a soldier coming home on leave is not a permitted use.
Will it be necessary to ask a sheriff's deputy to stop the next escort and cite the drivers of police and fire vehicles? Or to get a trooper from the Illinois State Police to come into Woodstock for this?
Our City must obey the laws of the State of Illinois. There is not a choice. If officials, whether elected or appointed, ignore State laws and permit violations, then we need different people in those offices!
What say ye? (Please, no knee-jerk reactions. Base your comments on law.)
You never know who is interested…
3 months ago
29 comments:
Come on Gus. If I were a Deputy or State Trooper and you asked or told me to write this offense, I'd laugh as I was driving away.
If by "use of the two-way, left-turn lane (such as on IL 47 through Woodstock)" you are referring to the center/third lane on Route 47, perhaps you should take your complaint to the Illinois Department of Transportation. NOTHING happens on IL Route 47 without their okay. I'm not saying it's right but it's their roadway, their rules apply. As for the fire trucks and ambulances parking in emergency vehicle spots when they are working out... What emergency vehicles are permitted to park there? Just when responding to a call? That makes a lot of sense. Have them park that engine or ambulance down the block in a "legal" spot. That way if they need the ambulance there - or elsewhere - they only have to run to it or move it back where it's needed. Using your logic, maybe it's reserved for a emergency refrigeration service vehicle. Your continued harping on the letter of the law only points out that common sense isn't
According to the Illinois Vehicle Code...
(625 ILCS 5/12-215)
(a) The use of red or white oscillating, rotating or
flashing lights, whether lighted or unlighted, is prohibited except on:
2. A vehicle operated by a police officer or county coroner and designated or authorized by local authorities, in writing, as a law enforcement vehicle; however, such
designation or authorization must be carried in the vehicle;
As you can see, they are permitted to utilize their lights if stated in their policy and approved by their chief.
And in addition,
There is a law governing the use of emergency vehicles (couldn't find it) that says that police officials can authorize the use of emergency lights.
Yea Gus your insane. Your old enough for the Vietnam war and even korean war, why didnt you inlist or get drafted? Soldiers are the whole reason you have your freedom. Your never going to win sheriff with comments like this. Even people who dont support the war still support the soldiers. Get a life man
Good try, Hank, but that isn't what that statute says. That statute only says that use of such lights is prohibited, except on certain vehicles. That statute doesn't anything about the actual use of the lights.
More is required than just the approval of the chief.
Hank, thanks for the nudge. Maybe I'll just have to submit a FOIA Request to Woodstock P.D. for the copy of the authorization from the chief to use lights/siren for escorting an individual to a home for a party.
Since when can taxpayer-supported government equipment be used to benefit a private individual???
Perhaps you can enlighten all of us, including poor Hank. I'm sure that you have researched this completely and have the very statute prohibiting such use close at hand. It's so crystal clear, you must show us all how ignorant we are. Share please.
Jason, go to the back of the class and take a seat on the stool in the corner. There is a tall, pointy hat there for you to wear. Face the corner, please.
The armistice for the Korean War was in 1953. I was 14 years old then.
So you were 25 for the vietnam war? why didnt you offer your services? because youd rather stay in the states and be a volunteer miltia man? lol. I have never been a soldier, but am more then grateful for every soldier volunteering to give his/her life to save mine.
Just, the statute doesn't prohibit this use of emergency equipment. The statute ALLOWS use under certain circumstances. Escorting a vet to his home (or a home where there is to be a party) is not a permitted use.
Sure, it's unpopular to take a stand about illegal use of lights and sirens, especially when it involves a vet (in this case, alive and uninjured). But the law is the law, and the City of Woodstock shouldn't be bending it just because it would be unpopular to observe it.
The statutes are VERY clear about use of emergency lights and sirens by fire equipment. They can use them going TO fires, but not returning from. If the only use is going TO a fire, how can Chief Webster allow his drivers to use them for escort service?
Jason, why don't you enlist?
You don't know anything about my military service.
Then just post those "very clear" statutes. Let us look at them. Don't give us "Philpott's Law!"
I'm not sure that you're wrong but your reluctance to put forth the proof you insist exists certainly makes it appear that you're talking out of your hat... again!
Just, since it's after 11PM now, I'll look up the statutes in the morning and post them.
I'm also waiting for ISP Dist. 2 Trooper Maria Navarro to return my 2:24PM call.
Yes Jason, why didn't you enlist?
The draft started in 1969, and by then, Gus was an undraftable "old man" of 30.
Still waiting for your "law class" Gus. How about it? Are you going to point us to the law which clearly prohibits the police and fire personnel from conducting these escorts that so trouble you?
"Since when can taxpayer-supported government equipment be used to benefit a private individual???"
Really? How about when your apartment is on fire or you need that trip to the hospital, or maybe someone is savagely beating you outside your home. Isn't that benefiting you? Where are you when there is a parade? Its the same thing but yet you dont flutter a word on here.
Hans, you confuse the services that an organization (fire or police) is obligated to provide in exchange for tax receipts and fees with the providing of a courtesy that is totally outside the realm of any legal service as a tax-supported entity.
Dear Mr Philpot:
625ILCS 5/12-215 covers the use of oscillating, rotating or flashing lights, with specfics 12-215(a) Red, 12-215(b)Amber 12-215(c) Blue. The only mention of restriction regarding use is 12-215(c)1 and 12-215 (c-1) where it restricts the use of blue lights and white headlight flashers used in personal vehicles of firefighters, rescue squad members, ambulance members or Emergency Mgmt personnel. It is restricted then for responding to emergency calls only.. There is nothing in the statue regarding use of red, white, amber, blue lights on emergency vehicles, with the exception of 12-216 where it states that if in pursuit of an offender than lights MUST be activated.
Given your logic, than any parade that fire department vehicles are in, there should be no use of lights or sirens, which is excatly what these "escorts"are...parades sanctioned by the Authority Having Jurisdiction (City).
firecop, it's a huge, and incorrect, stretch of imagination to consider an escort of a soldier coming home inthe evening to be a "parade". But let's say it is a parade. Then there will be a resolution by the City Council to close streets, restrict parking and permit city-owned equipment and city employees to participate. I suspect none of that happened in this instance. I guess I could submit a FOIA Request to City Hall (but I won't).
All we've seen or heard, Gus is your rambling theories and interpretations of laws that you will not post. Are you going to put up the statute which you claim clearly prohibits the use of emergency lights in those instances that so bother you or are you going to shut up? Resolution to participate in a parade, etc? Give us the law or give us a break. LOL!
Hey Gus- Local authorities can use their lights and sirens!
(625 ILCS 5/11-208) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 11-208)
Sec. 11-208. Powers of local authorities.
(a) The provisions of this Code shall not be deemed to prevent local authorities with respect to streets and highways under their jurisdiction and within the reasonable exercise of the police power from:
2. Regulating traffic by means of police officers or traffic control signals;
3. Regulating or prohibiting processions or assemblages on the highways;
In a nutshell, it says that local authorities can go against some of the vehicle code regulations.
They are allowed to use their police officers to regulate traffic, and using their lights and sirens to move cars over is permitted under "traffic control"
It also allows local authorities to regulate processions, and if that involves allowing a police patrol car in front to stop traffic and lead the procession, they can.
Give it up Gus.
Hank, I'd like to agree with you, but I do not - based on law.
Regulating or controlling traffic generally means standing in an intersection and directing traffic; ex., when a traffic light is out.
What about the fire trucks, using sirens and airhorns, the other night? Why did they not continue to use the airhorns after they passed my residence. Sure is interesting how it suddenly got quiet again after they passed.
Regulating traffic does not just mean standing out in the middle of the intersection. One could regulate traffic NUMEROUS ways:
1) Placing barricades
2) Placing detour signs
3) Stopping traffic
You are regulating traffic when you are utilizing lights and sirens because you are forcing others to stop and yield.
And you forgot to mention the 2nd part of that statute, Processions. Those are considered processions and law enforcement and emergency services can regulate those by providing a "lead vehicle"
WHAT LAW, GUS?! You keep harping on "the law" but you have yet to show us the money! Why? Could it be that you cannot? It's crystal clear according to you, Gus but you cannot show us the law because the "law" that you rely on exists only in your head. You either provide the law or you don't It's not up to us to prove a negative. You say it exists. I/we say it doesn't easy enough for you? Put up or shut up. You are wrong and you know it.
Hank, if you include funeral processions, not even those are mentioned in the Illinois Vehicle Code as having an emergency escort. The funeral director's car should be first and is given certain guidelines about traffic lights and stop signs. Those guidelines do not include blowing through them; he must stop on red or at a stop sign.
Geez, Just; it sounds like you are saying, "Put up your dukes."
The "law", Hank, is the Illinois Vehicle Code. That's State law. Local governments can, in some cases, make their own laws that are more restrictive, but they cannot legislate more lenient laws.
When my schedule permits, I'll provide the statutes and comments on them. I'll do this on my time-table, Hank; not on yours.
An easy one is the law for use of emergency equipment by fire trucks. Drivers are allowed to use lights, sirens and airhorns on the way to a fire. That's it. Not returning. Not as escort for a soldier to a party.
Well why dont you post the law where it says that already?
Hans is exactly right. We keep posting laws, where's your defense?
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